Ryan STM Trainers Losses On Java

[Tommy Wo!]

Does anyone have / know of a list detailing the Ryan STM primary trainers (both land /sea models) lost by the MLD on the island of Java in 1941? I've seen that a total of 8 Ryans were lost due to accidents or mechanical issues between January - December 1941. However, I'm only able to confirm four of those aircraft. Please note that I'm not interested in Ryan STM trainers operated by the ML-KNIL in 1941.

[BennoT6]

Good day Tommy,

Have two fatal accidents in my records:

crew	† (a/c type)	† (serial)	† (a/c crashdate)	remarks
Hepkema, W.T. (Watse Tjebbe)	STM-2 Ryan	S-??	1942/01/21	killed at Madioen
Vermeijden, J. (Jacob)	STM-2 Ryan	S-42	1941/08/02	killed at Soerabaja

Regards,

Benno

[LVA-40]

Hi Tommy,

I have several incidents, all fron digitalised newspaper archives (like the one above). I don't know which list you have compiled. Some addings to the list of Benno:

crew	† (a/c type)	† (serial)	† (a/c crashdate)	remarks
Van Heugten	STM-2 Ryan	S-19	1941/01/31	Unharmed, Ryan repairable
??	STM-2 Ryan	S-??	1941/02/12	Unharmed, Ryan repairable (caused by fuel shortage and landed NE of Soerabaja)
??	STM-2 Ryan	S-20(*)	1941/04/21	First flight after service: pilot had to leave by parachute (W of Soerabaja)
Vermeijden, J. (Jacob)	STM-2 Ryan	S-42	1941/08/02	killed at Soerabaja
Hardy, William	STM-2 Ryan	S-??	1941/09/27	Destroyed by fire, American instructor unharmed (jumped in the harbor)
??		S-43(*)	1941/10/??	Destroyed by fire
Hepkema, W.T. (Watse Tjebbe)	STM-2 Ryan	S-??	1942/01/21	killed at Madioen (poss ML-KNIL)

(added some details: * source Luchtvaartkennis / Luchtvaartencyclopedie 1987 Hazewinkel/Casius)

I hope you can share your list, it might be usefull to fill gaps,

Kind regards,

LVA-40

[Tommy Wo!]

Hi All...

Thanks so much for your feedback. Here is the list I've compiled on my own.

Ryan STMs Lost January - December 1941:

1. S-19 STM-2 Accident 1/31/41
2. S-20 STM-2 Accident (test flight) 4/21/41
3. S-42 STM-2S Accident 8/2/41
4. S-43 STM-2S Burned (fire) 9/27/41

Tiger Moths Lost January - December 1941:

1. PK-SBJ Tiger Moth Accident 9/26/41 Soerabaja VVC
2. PK-SBB Tiger Moth Landing Accident 10/12/41 Malang VVC

I'm primarily interested in the Ryan trainers lost Jan - Dec 1941. Nico Geldhoff in his book, 70 Jaar Marineluchtvaartdienst, states that 8 Ryans were lost. However, I've only been able to definitely attached dates for the above four aircraft. I'm finalizing my latest manuscript, which details the activities of 12 American flight instructors hired by the KM / MLD in 1940-41 to train flight cadets on the island of Java. I'd like to include a chart of the Ryans lost.

[Tommy Wo!]

Here is an excerpt from my manuscript about the American flight instructors on Java.

Bill Hardy and the Loss of S-43

Amidst the investigation of T 18’s engine, the first loss of a MLD aircraft piloted by an American instructor came about on the morning of August 27. Bill Hardy took off in the STM-S2 trainer S-43 for a solo flight. Barely had he left the water when the Ryan’s engine burst into flames. Although equipped with a fire suppression system, the intense fire burnt away all of its rubber hoses and destroyed the system itself. Hardy made an emergency landing in the harbor and leapt into the water with minor burns to his legs. He was pulled out of the water within minutes by another aircraft. Although reported as a complete loss by local newspapers, the MLD considered S-43 badly damaged, but repairable.[i]

---

[i] Stell, Arkansas Air Traveler, p. 235, “Lesvliegtuig Neergestort.” Bataviaasch Nieuwsblad, September 27, 1941 and Vromans, Wijziging Benzinesysteem Ryan-Vliegtuigen.

[LVA-40]

Hi Tommy,

I'm really interested to your manuscript; sadly I cant read it, because its a dead link. Can you sent it by PM if the link wouldnt work at all?
Same for the source you mentioned (Vromans, wijzigingen benzinesysteem Ryan-vliegtuigen). Its higly interresting, because it will give a reason why ST-3s were ordered.

Nico Geldof mentioned 8 losses up to December 8th, 1941. It is very well possible that some of them were written off due to lack of parts or damage beyond repair. 34 Ryans were shipped, plus 2 damaged ones for repairs, to Australia.
In the article of LvK, of the 48 MLD Ryans S-11, S-12, S-13, S-15, S-20, S-32, S-34, S-36, S-42, S-43, S-44 and S-52 a total of 12 is mentioned to be written off before shipment (February 17th). S-19 wasnt lost at all, as it was repaired and shipped as well.
Of those mentioned the Ryans 11, 12, 13 and 15 were lost before the war ass well as 20, 42, 43 which is a total of seven.

Kind regards,

[Tommy Wo!]

Hello!

Do you have any more information on S-11, S-12, S-13 and / or S-15? Specifically, the dates of their respective losses and / or the cause of their loss?

Just to clarify, when you say the links are dead, do you mean that you're unable to view or open the files I attached? The only part of my manuscript that I posted was the short paragraph above.

You're probably already familiar with these sources, but I attached them anyway.

From what I've found on the web, this incident involved S-43.

https://tinyurl.com/y2vfwvzz
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/245751

I believe this relates to the loss / damage to S-19

https://tinyurl.com/mvxwd4sm

[Tommy Wo!]

Unfortunately, I don't immediately have at hand, the original Dutch language document of A.G. Vromans' letter to Ryan regarding his redesign of the Ryan STM's fuel line. If I remember correctly, it was bundled in a much larger file of documents; I would have to dig thru my records to find it. But here is my English-language translation of said document, titled "A.G. Vroman Letter to NPC - Ryan Trainer Fuel System Redesign (11-1-41) (M.72K-2-16)" for my research purposes.But you will see below that it does conclusively ID S-43 as the Ryan trainer that caught fire while being flown by the American flight instructor William Hardy.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Commander of the Navy
in Netherlands-Indies Batavia-C. November 1, 1941.-

----------------------------

No. M72K/2/16.- Subject:
Modification of the Fuel System for Ryan Aircraft

Bijlage: 1

1. I have the honor to inform your Committee of the following.

1. The Ryan aircraft S 43 was severely damaged by fire, which is very likely due to a rupture in the fuel supply system.

1. The fuel line is routed in such a way that, if it breaks, the fuel will fall directly onto the exhaust pipes.

1. The fuel system for the Ryan aircraft supplied to the Royal Netherlands Navy will therefore be modified in accordance with the enclosed white print No. 13891, with the fire suppressor being placed behind the firewall.

1. The line from the (modified) fuel tank to the fire suppressor is made of copper, but the lines from the fire suppressor to the filter and from the filter to the carburetor are made of Aviotube hose No. 10.

1. As I believe the new design significantly reduces the risk of fire, I request that you inform the factory of this and take this into account for any subsequent deliveries.

1. A copy of this letter will be sent to you by the next airmail.

The Commander of the Navy
On behalf of:
The Captain at Sea
Head of the 2nd Department
A.G. Vromans
A.G. Vromans.

To
The Netherlands Purchasing Commission
Holland House
Rockefeller Plaza
New – York .-

-----------------------------------------------

The first MLD and ML-KNIL Ryan STMs were equipped with the Menasco 150hp engine. I'm not that familiar with the Ryan trainer but I do know that engine had a number of problems and required careful maintenance. As a result, the MLD ordered 25(?) Ryan ST-3KR with a more reliable Kinner 160hp engine. The MLD never received these aircraft and they were transferred to the USAAF as the PT-22.

[LVA-40]

Hello!

Do you have any more information on S-11, S-12, S-13 and / or S-15? Specifically, the dates of their respective losses and / or the cause of their loss?
Nope, only this registrations are mentioned in the list compiled in Luchtvaartkennis / Luchtvaartencyclopedie 1987 Hazewinkel/Casius

Just to clarify, when you say the links are dead, do you mean that you're unable to view or open the files I attached? The only part of my manuscript that I posted was the short paragraph above.
Ok, thanks for clearing that out: it looks to me like an external link (blue underscored)

You're probably already familiar with these sources, but I attached them anyway.
Yes, but thanks anyways!

From what I've found on the web, this incident involved S-43.

https://tinyurl.com/y2vfwvzz
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/245751

I believe this relates to the loss / damage to S-19

https://tinyurl.com/mvxwd4sm
Which is impossible: because the used sources didnt mention any registration
Reg is mentioned as S-42 in the "Gedenkrol MLD", free translated as the honorlist of the Navy Air Arm: https://www.traditiekamermld.nl/wp-c...atabase11a.pdf.

S-19 is only related to the crash mentioned some posts earlier (with photos).

Thank you for sending the doc of A.G. Vromans. Yes, the Menasco was prone to overheating - in the tropics not the ideal choice. But what choice could be made? The MLD in the Dutch Indies had a big shortage of training aircraft after the Dutch capitulation, virtually none at the end of 1940- and had to lend some of the Army. So I really dont know if the choise was made out of possibilities. They were making the best of it (not the ideal phrase in English language, but straight translated of a Dutch saying..)

Kind regards,
LVA-40

[LVA-40]

In addition on the information mentioned above: I read in the study of P.C. Boer (https://www.amazon.nl/-/en/Aircraft-.../dp/9067077437) the following about the STM:

"...though in the beginning the Menasco engines formed a source of trouble. During te running in of the first aircraft cooling problems emerged and temporary measures had to be improvised to improve the cooling of the rear cilinders".
Its about the Ryan STM trainers NEI Army Air Corps, solved after a complaint had filed with the factory: "Ryan provided baffle plates, free of charge, which sufficiently improved the coolling of the rear cilinders."

From 21 Januari 1941 onwards the Ryan fleet was grounded for inspection, which revealed that in some engines faulty oil scraper rings had been used during assembly (p.117).

Of the MLD Ryans a comment is made about the number of turns in a spin. Not more than seven were allowed, but total forbidden after a test flight of a MLD Ryan on 21 May 1941 a MLD Ryan got into a flat spin after five or six turns. (p.118) Maybe its about the crash on 21 April (faulty mentioned date), or its another crash of a MLD Ryan (which I don't think is true).


I was thinking about the crashes of MLD Ryans before December 7th, 1941: the NEI AAC had some losses in the beginning stage, but of the 60 delivered end 1940-begin of 1941 still 57 were on strength when the hostilities started. Of the 48 MLD Ryans, only 40 were left after some eleven months of use? Its a high loss number, which I cannot explain.

Then at last: the ST-3KR was ordered by NEI AAC, not the MLD. Before the German occupation of Holland, the MLD uses the Fokker S.IX with Menasco Buccaneer- maybe someone have information about the service history with the Buccaneer in Holland to compare MLD issues with it?

Kind regards,

LVA-40